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The Dialogue in Hell between Machiavelli and Montesquieu: Humanitarian Despotism and the Conditions of Modern Tyranny (Applications of Political Theory)
by Maurice Joly
Product Group: Book
Publisher: Lexington Books (2003-09-28)
ISBN: 0739106996
EAN: 9780739106990
Dewy Decimal #: 320
Paperback: 418 pages
SKU: 10-V4C2-FLO1
Condition: As New
Comments: Softcover is shiny. Pages have no markings. Binding is tight with no creasing to spine.
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Editorial Reviews
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Product Description
John Waggoner's superb translation of and commentary on Joly's Dialogue--the first faithful translation in English--seeks not only to update the sordid legacy of the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion but to redeem Joly's original work for serious study in its own right, rather than through the lens of antisemitism. Waggoner's work vindicates a man who was neither an antisemite nor a supporter of the kind of tyrannical politics the Protocols subsequently served, and presents Maurice Joly, once much maligned and too long ignored, as one of the nineteenth century's foremost political thinkers.
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Customer Reviews
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1864 Novel or the Minutes of Cheney/Rumsfeld/Neo-Con Meetings?
Rating  (5)
Date: 2008-06-23
2 out of 2 customers found this reveiw helpful
The reason why you see such a high price tag on this book [...], is because it is a "How-to" guide that explains how a president in a Republic acquires dictatorial powers and changes the Republic into Empire.
The model for this insightful, "spill-the-beans" work is Louis Napoleon III of France. Louis was elected president of France in 1848 in an election that was probably more legitimate than ours in 2000. The Constitution of the French Republic limited a president's term to four years. Louis was able to convince his parliament to extend this so Louis would have time to implement his policies. Louis then staged a coup d'etat and seized dictatorial powers, passing new constitutional statutes masking his power and Louis reigned France as a dictator for 20 more years.
Due to the new century and the militant foreign policy of the neo-cons, today's America is in this same position. (chillingly, super neo-con Harvey Mansfield is listed as an editor of this Political Theory Series). Following are passages in the "Dialogues" that run parallel to the political tactics of today:
Machiavelli: "I will start by having my coup against the state ratified by popular vote. In a carefully crafted message to the people, I will show that we were in a crisis situation". "On the very next day after my constitution takes effect, I will issue a series of decrees with force of law that will do away with these liberties and rights...". (PATRIOT ACT-2001).
Montesquieu: "Indeed, you've chosen your moment well. the country is still terrorized by your coup d'etat" (9/11). "As for your constitution, nothing will be denied you, since you could take everything".
Machiavelli: "But I hasten to assure you that the liberties I suppress I shall formally promise to restore after factional strife has been quieted". (THE PATRIOT ACT WAS LIMITED IN YEARS AND HAD TO BE RESTORED WITH THE PATRIOT ACT II).
Machiavelli: [Regarding the Press] "I could suppress all of you. I haven't yet done so but I can I'll let you live, on one condition, that you don't try to block my progress or descredit my power...I reserve to myself or my agents the right to judge when I am being attacked...the third time you will be suppressed". (WHY THE PRESS IS MUZZLED ON 9/11, IRAQ, AND SOON IRAN).
Machiavelli: "I shall count the number of newspapers that represent what you call the "opposition". If there are ten in this category, I shall have twenty pro-government". (MASS SUGGETION as explained in my review of the book, Propaganda. "I will put a certain number of newspapers that will adopt the official line of things in a straightforward way. They will defend my acts unreservedly. (TELEVISION TODAY-FOX NEWS).
Machiavelli: "Some malfeasance by a public official, I shall forbid the newspapers to speak of it. Silence about such things, rather than noising them about, is more respectful of public decency". (TODAY, OMMISSION OF KEY STORIES AND EVENTS).
Machiavelli: "...see how I will use statements in the press to prepare the ground for official political acts...For several months, each of my newspapers will play upon the public mind in their own fashion and then recommend a course of action. One fine morning, this course of action is officially adopted". (AGAIN, SEE "PROPAGANDA" AND THE INFLUENCE OF MASS SUGGESTION).
Machiavelli: "I would give a certain number of my newpapers the task of constantly exalting the glory of my reign while holding other governments responsible for the shortcomings of European politics". (CLINTON ALLOWED OSAMA BIN LADEN TO GET AWAY).
Machiavelli: "Do you know what SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY is? When individuals are wronged by government agents performing their duties and bring them before the courts, judges must answer them thus: "You have no legal recourse here". (BUSH INVOKES SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY ON THE 600+ LAWSUITS AGAINS HIM, ROVE STILL INVOKING THIS TO GET OUT OF TESTIFYING, ETC.)
Machiavelli: "...the source of lawsuits will dry up. Public opinion would become so tame that total reliance would be placed on the official opinions of the government for the meaning of the law. At certain moments, when there is a good reason to fear that some controversy may arise over some point of law, the government will declare as an advisory opinion that the law applies to this or that situation or that the law extends to this or that case". (NSA WIRETAPPING, TORTURE, ETC).
Machiavelli: "If this district has only a small population, I simply redraw it and put in into a neighboring district where opposition voices will be drowned out and...". (REPUBLICAN TOM DELAY'S REDISTRICTING SCHEME)
Machiavelli: "I will control 19 of 20 men, all of whom will follow my instructions. In the meantime, I would pull the strings of a sham opposition, clandestinely enlisted to my cause". (CONGRESS DEMOCRATS-ALL PAID FOR).
Machiavelli: "...there is a particular way of presenting the budget to disguise rising costs". (COST OF IRAQ WAR)
Montesquieu: "...whom you will ask of such capital and for what purpose?"
Machiavelli: "Foreign wars are a great help in providing a rationale". (SELF EXPLANATORY PARALLEL).
"These financial giants would be able to manipulate the markets at will".
Machiavelli: "The wars that will occur in my reign will be undertaken in the name of the liberty of men and the independence of nations". (IRAQ)
Machiavelli: "I have brought into being around me a formidable school of political men...in all branches of government there will be veritable miniature Machiavellis, who will trick, dissimulate, and lie with an imperturbable sangfroid. Truth will not be able to come to light anywhere".
I must end this, the despair is immense...
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Standing the test of Time
Rating (5)
Date: 2008-01-29
1 out of 1 customers found this reveiw helpful
Joly's work is important. Reading this obscure 140+ year old text tells much about the past, present and future. It is almost prophetic.
Waggoner does an excellent job and I thank him mightily for allowing us access to this text. The commentary is a bit extensive, as I did not look forward to reading it upon completion of the consuming Dialogue. However, it is helpful, necessary and worth getting through.
I had not read "The Prince" nor "Spirit of the Laws" prior, but had general understanding of them. Needless to say, next are they on my list. My motivation for picking this one up was the "Protocols" scandal. All in all, I consider this a remarkable work providing insight on the tyrants of the 19th/20th centuries and the ones presently budding. Those especially for which the Dialogue proved a heavy and indirect influence vis a vis the forged "Protocols". Perhaps it makes sense such a telling tome remains obscure, as the masses seem to prefer their dose of soma (McDonalds, iPods, TV...) rather than actual thought, in this "brave new world".
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Machiavelli Misunderstood?
Rating  (4)
Date: 2006-09-02
4 out of 4 customers found this reveiw helpful
I read this book while researching the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion." Clearly "Protocols" was heavily plagiarized from this work and was a forgery to boot. In any event, this is a captivating tale of a conversation between Machiavelli (counselor to despots) and Montesquieu (philosophical and political father of the U.S. Constitution.) Machiavelli claims to be misunderstood but as the dialogue progresses it seems painfully evident that he is generally not.
While Machiavelli and Montesquieu both claim to be followers of Christ, it becomes clear to everyone but Machiavelli that he operates out of self-interest rather than the good of society. His self-delusion is phenomenal and is readily seen in politics today. The book is obscure, true, but I found it to be a page-turner. Do not pass judgment on this book because someone later used it for anti-Semitic purposes. There is nothing anti-Semitic in this original tale.
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A great book with a sad history
Rating (5)
Date: 2006-05-19
5 out of 8 customers found this reveiw helpful
As noted in every book I've ever read about the infamous forgery, _The Protocols of the Elders of Zion_, this book was the source, edited beyond recogintion by the Czar's secret police.
_The Dialogue in Hell_ must not have done very well, or more people would have recognized the _Protocols_ as a forgery sooner.
Sadly, political forgeries continue today. Dan Rather and Mary Mapes lost their jobs at CBS over forged memos; how odd that today's American liberals haven't learned from the Czar's secret police's mistakes.
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Not for the Optimist
Rating (5)
Date: 2003-05-01
17 out of 37 customers found this reveiw helpful
Before I can even begin about the book, the story BEHIND the book is amazing. It would not surprise me if Cheney had a copy of the German version somewhere in his desk as Bush probably wouldn't understand a third of the amazing ideas put forth in this formerly banned book. Watching the news is like watching Machiavelli's Dialogue come to life. Listening to Democrats is like hearing Montesquieu's feeble attempts to say that in the end, the good guys will win because of Justice and Liberty. If the Dialogue were a swordfight, Machiavelli would have not only killed poor Montesquieu, but eviscerated and beheaded him as well. Waggoner's commentaries and insights are a little dry when compared with the excellent text but are a good read and do well to put some of the outdated points in the text into context. I strongly reccomend this for anybody who is questioning the course of events that our world is being swept up in.
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